The niceguy/badboy phenomenon...

[Karbonopsinos]

I have a new proposal. I think that there is no such thing as nice guys and bad boys.

I think the world is actually more divided into forward people and timid people, in both genders.

A great number of forward people unfortunately take it to the boundaries of arrogance and rudeness. This gives rise to the bad boy/jerk/bitch phenomenon. These forward people come to think of themselves as a higher race of sorts, know-it-alls and superior.

Similarly, a great number of timid people are just the same on the inside....selfish, self-centered, cruel, lying, cheating, etc. They just manage to hide it better with their timidity. I think that most of the time, these guys want sex and all that just as much as jerks, yet have sneaky seductive ways to get to it.

However, there is a smaller number of forward people who are actually very polite, compassionate, kind, gentle, strong, etc. on the inside.

Similarly, there is a smaller number of such timid people, just as wonderful on the inside.

I tend to think that, ultimately at least, jerks, and when I say "jerks" I mean the forward, arrogant, cruel, selfish, cheating pigs, hook up with nice girls and when I say "nice girls" I mean timid women who are moral trash......and keep on breaking up and finding new ones.

I also think that bitches, the female analog of jerks, hook up with nice guys and when I say "nice guys" I mean weak men who are moral trash on the inside....and keep on hooking up all over again.

I tend to think that a lot, but by no means the majority, of divorces happen in relationships like these.....you really can't have a bitch and a jerk or a "nice guy" and a "nice girl" together....one must be the leech and the other must be the player, that's the way it is.

On the other hand, I think that the law of opposites applies in the other two cases. I think that the forward good men marry the timid good women and that the forward good women marry the timid good men. Now, unfortunately this implies a dominance of some sort, so if a timid guy doesn't want to be domineered in a relationship (and I am one of them), he had better become forward. This is easier said than done, but I think willpower can bring about such a change.

Anyway, that's just my polemic, since I've been really annoyed by all the "badboy"/"niceguy" crap I see float by. Honestly, you have forward and timid people and you have good and bad people on both sides of the line. Timidity doesn't mean someone is good on the inside and forwardness doesn't mean they're bad either.

What do you all think?

[AlexAnt]

I agree with everything you said, except maybe this part:
Originally posted by Karbonopsinos
I think that the forward good men marry the timid good women and that the forward good women marry the timid good men. Now, unfortunately this implies a dominance of some sort, so if a timid guy doesn't want to be domineered in a relationship (and I am one of them), he had better become forward. This is easier said than done, but I think willpower can bring about such a change.
I don't think a shy person being in a relationship with an outgoing person means that the shy person has to be domineered. I (a fairly shy person) have been in a relationship with a very outgoing person and not felt that way in the least. I think it's a question of respect for the shy person's opinions and whatnot, not a question of who talks or asserts themselves the most. Even though it wasn't a massive amount, this gal still valued everything I had to say, which I suppose is why I didn't feel submissive.

A very good post, though. :)

Alex

[HOT FAERIE]

YOU wrote a very good thread...I have often wondered why I am attracted to the bad guys /jerks I don't want to be ..but there is something within them that compels me AND repels me ????

I am timid for the most part as far as communicating ..verbally but sexually .....I am not , ( when I don't want to?? ) it comes out of me .. and the" bad guys "pick up on it ...:devil: the "nice" guys do too but I don't give them the time of day because they ( from my experience ) become very obsessive which the " players" don't?!

At the same time I WANT BOTH
:rolleyes: someone who is sweet , considerate , understanding and honest but they usually lack the fun , spontanous , sexy kind of hero a woman seeks... she wants to feel cherished ,adored AND PROTECTED!!!!!

BACK TO YOUR QUESTION.......YOU ARE RIGHT....there is no such thing as good girls and bad boys ......I think it's conditioning of the way you were broght up to perceive things ..BY observation of your parent or whoever was the main people in your life during your developing years...
think about it.......THAT IS HOW STEREOTYPES AND CYCLES
BEGIN....... and people proceed on that notion.BREAKING IT IS THE HARD PART ....


I love my dad , but I HATE HIM TOO he never showed my mom respect and never married her , treated her awful and yet I AM ATTRACTED TO THE SAME ........I THINK MAYBE I JUST HAVE NOT FOUND A BALANCE IN SOMEONE unless it was female ....
I know , .. IT GETS DEEP but ..........THANK YOU KARSPO FOR GIVING ME SOME INSIGHT ..I really needed right now and I SHOULD be pm 'img this but ......you are helping me break the cycle :smash:

[Karbonopsinos]

That's really sad. I think you have to make a conscious decision to break the cycle. My dad is a decent father (nothing great) but is much weaker at heart than my mother, who is as strong as a lioness. I will have to fight marrying a woman like her, not because I don't like opinionated women, but because our two extremely domineering personalities would clash.

Just think through it. Maybe your dad was decent to you but it sounds like he was not that great for your mom. I would just say that you should carefully consider your choices: would you rather be with a daring, spontaneous, sexy guy who never marries you and treats you horribly (and probably isn't such a good influence for your children) or someone who is more tempered, who will be your constant companion, who will treat you and the children right.

If I were in your place, the decision would be clear. But since I'm not a woman I can't say. I would just say that your image of masculinity shouldn't be based on movies and some sort of primitivism. Men are first humans, then men. They really are bound to the same standards of decency as woman and testosterone does not excuse abusing women, getting into fights, killing people, voluntarily running into wars for this same purpose. I know the war hero is somewhat of a legend in our country, but to be quite honest, if I were a woman I would never be able to love someone who went to another country to kill people who had done nothing to him.

I know I digress....I hope you make the right decision and that I don't come across as anal.

PS. As for protection, I would say it is much more important to first get a protector who treats you right in times of safety. And then remember that arrogance doesn't imply that a guy would be a better protector. A lot of the arrogant guys are just bullying cowards. Oftentimes the bravest men and women are the quiet ones who face danger when it comes up but have no need to flaunt their so-called bravery when no danger presents itself.

[realkuhl]

Welcome to my Nightmare =)

I am married to a very strong woman. She reminds me a lot of my mother. We have a 20 month old lil' girl and will probably be getting a divorce in the next year. The relationship is pretty much dead at this point .:bawling:

Lesson learned: Don't marry someone that reminds you of your mother or they will potentially become your mother.

We're going to be very good friends that are raising a baby together but apart... welcome to the new class of relationships 2002:nod:

-Realkuhl
:note:

[Karbonopsinos]

I'm guessing that you feel she's too domineering. I've already decided on that issue. I want a strong woman but not one who browbeats me. She's NOT going to be my mother. I have one mother, I love her, but I don't need my wife to be her prototype.

I'm also guessing that you too have a pretty strong personality, so you come into conflict.

However, I'd suggest that you just talk to her and assert yourself. I think that oftentimes people feel that if their partner is not assertive and strong enough that they must fill in the void in the marriage, which is truly sad. The result is that my father was basically sidelined and played no part in my raising. My mother decided the languages I would speak (my father and mother are different ethnicities), the religion I would follow (which I am VERY happy with, since it gives meaning to my life), the instruments I would play, the subjects I would study, and even the food I would eat and clothes I would wear. It's pretty nauseating when she still tries to regulate what I wear when I'm 17 and already at college.

Really though, I think maybe you should just assert yourself and I think your kid would be a good way to do that. Show that you care. Do little things. Feed, clothe, wash your baby girl. Read to her at night. In short, become a male mom. I know it might not be your nature, but if you don't do that now, not only will your marriage end for certain, but your wife will gain the upperhand and become the sole "decider" for that kid. If you want to grow up with a daughter who will respect, love, and obey you you must make that bond NOW.

Believe me, you won't regret it. It could prevent a lot of pain. And remember, assert yourself! Be willing to say no when you think (and are sure) that she is wrong, be flexible but not a runover....